WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING SHARIDETH SAID IS PROBLEMATIC
WITH SHARIDETH’S POST (i.e., what happens if you use her same logic/take her
comments to their logical conclusion, what she is implying, etc.)
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WHAT SHARIDETH ACTUALLY SAID
(that may or may not even remotely address the issue that the authors of the
blog post she is quoting were even referencing)
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WHY THIS SPREADSHEET IS A DISHONEST HEAP OF CRAP
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This post is victim-blaming language
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“The [idea that] causing men not to stumble face first into
motorboating lies solely on the way women dress and carry themselves…is a
steaming pile.”
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Here's some victim-blaming language:
What Sharideth said: “But when a woman wears revealing clothing, then
gets angry when men notice, that’s not cool either. It makes her a hypocrite.”
[your emotions are invalid because of what you are wearing? and also you're a hypocrite]
“If she wears a micromini and claims to not want a reaction from men,
I’m going to straight up call her a liar.”
[do you hear that lesbians!? You dress for the menfolk! And straight ladies, you too. Either way, you guys are NOT DRESSING FOR YOURSELF,
ok? So don’t try to lie to me! YOU ASKED FOR THIS!]
“I believe confidence in women is the single best defense against abuse and being taken advantage of in just about any situation she could encounter.”
[This seems to say, "you wouldn't have been abused if you had just been more confident!!" Forget the fact that maybe ending rape culture would be the single best defense against abuse and being taken advantage of. Women need more confidence in themselves. Come on, women! Step up your game and you'll stop getting abused.]
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This is a post by someone who claims to be anti-rape culture and
anti-modesty culture referring to women’s bodies as traps.
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“She set a trap and blew a gasket when my friend fell into it.” (She
did not refer to her body as a trap, but rather her behavior.)
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OH, so her body isn't the trap, but her immodest behavior is. Got it.
I feel way better now. That is definitely NOT modesty culture, no way. I don't know why I was confused.
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They blatantly tell women that their clothing choices can forfeit
their right to bodily autonomy
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“Let me be clear. I am not saying that wearing revealing clothing is
an open invitation for men to grab you.”
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But you are saying that it is an open invitation for men to stare at
you AS LONG AS THEY DON’T GRAB YOU. And you aren't allowed
to get angry about it. Because your behavior set that trap!
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It starts with the idea that women don’t have the right to define
their clothing choices.
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“A woman can wear whatever she wants. More power to her.” / “I’m all
for being proud of your body and carrying yourself with confidence.”
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More power to her, yeah. Unless she gets angry. Or tries to stand up
for herself. I mean, wait, “grind his nether bits into dust.” Then no, no
power to you in that instance. Because when you stand up to these guys, you
are actually just emasculating them and making them smaller. NOT COOL.
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“Glitter boobs means you’re a whore. Glitter boobs mean you’re asking
for men to stare.”
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“Not only is it impossible for me to completely conceal what my mama
gave me, I don’t want to.”
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Let’s ignore for a moment that this is a total non sequitur. No let’s
not. Let’s observe that and then move on to the real issue: “But when a woman
wears revealing clothing, then gets angry when men notice, that’s not cool
either. It makes her a hypocrite.”
THIS. This is the problem.
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It starts when we say that oppressed groups don’t have the right to
define their clothing
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“What I’m saying is that if you are going to wear what could be
legitimately called “suggestive” then just own it.” / “Women can wear
whatever they like.”
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The rights they are losing are the right to wear clothes FOR
THEMSELVES and not men, the right to get angry about the reactions their
clothing get, and the right to stand up for themselves without being “not
cool” or a “hypocrite.” (see above quotes)
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People—especially those in groups that face systematic violence—have
the right to express discomfort. They have the right to “shame” those they
feel violated by.
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“If one comes on too strong or inappropriately, then by all means,
have at him.”
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But here is the rub, Sharideth gets to decide what is and is not
appropriate. And to be clear, her friends are never inappropriate. Because
only strangers do bad things to women! (duh)
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Saying that clothing can take away the right to bodily autonomy s
dangerous, and it is participating in rape culture.
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“You could wear a Frederick’s of Hollywood little bit of nothin’,
walk down the middle of the street and that still wouldn't give a man the
right to touch you.”
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No, but he could look/stare/glare at you. And you need to OWN that
look of his. Because you wanted it and you trapped it.
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Modesty culture is bad, but for GODSSAKE cover your boobs!
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“A woman can wear whatever she wants. More power to her.” / “I’m all
for being proud of your body and carrying yourself with confidence.” / Not
only is it impossible for me to completely conceal what my mama gave me, I
don’t want to.”
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THIS QUOTE WAS NEVER ATTRIBUTED TO SHARIDETH. It was a generic
example of pseudo-modesty culture take downs. Including it represents total hypocrisy / lack of
reading comprehension and/or dishonesty.
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If you wear revealing clothing, you negate your right to stand up for
yourself?
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“If [a man] comes on too strong or inappropriately, then by all
means, have at him. Hard.”
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See above: here is the
rub, Sharideth gets to decide what is and is not appropriate. And to be
clear, her friends are never inappropriate. Because only strangers do bad
things to women! (duh)
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“You wouldn’t have been abused if you had just been more confident!”
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Confidence is also an excellent weapon against shame. Shame being one
of the main things my Christian feminist friends are kicking soundly and
repeatedly in the groin. Praise Jesus.
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This line was edited after my post was written. Here is the original
language that Kristen pretends never existed and my response to it:
“I believe confidence in women is the single best defense against
abuse and being taken advantage of in just about any situation she could
encounter.”
Me: it seems to say, "you wouldn't have
been abused if you had just been more confident!!" Forget the fact that
maybe ending rape culture would be the single best defense against abuse and
being taken advantage of. Women need more confidence in themselves. Come on,
women! Step up your game and you'll stop getting abused.
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Thank you. This is perfect.
ReplyDeleteNo, thank you. I know it hasn't been easy for you standing up for these basic rights of women. Thanks for everything you went through and put up with.
DeleteWow, you really have word-twisting down to a science. I did not imply I was "more popular" and I think you know that. I was only responding to YOU talking numbers. You said, "Multiple people have interpreted your words the same way. Perhaps that merits some re-evaluation." To which I said "And multiple people (500+) have shared it on facebook. So I don't think a numbers game is necessarily the way to determine the merits of an argument." That's not me bragging about popularity, it's me disputing YOUR point about numbers.
ReplyDeleteI feel that I've responded with respect and I get that we disagree. I employed the chart to try to be more objective, because I thought you were so subjective. I do understand the different between quoting someone and analyzing logic, and I felt you were doing neither. I thought you were twisting words. You even say in your revised spreadsheet that you were saying what Sharideth was implying, and that's what I was addressing. You were attributing thoughts and meanings that were not hers, and I used YOUR EXACT WORDS, lined up with hers. I felt it was a very fair way to illustrate this. But I didn't call you dumb, and I still won't.
I'm not even going to address the other stuff you are saying. I'll just hope that anyone reading will actually click over and read my real words.
And honestly, if you want to reduce blogger wars, stop writing multiple posts in reaction to the posts of others, while creatively "interpreting" what they said. It makes you sound reactionary.
Wow, you want to talk about "word twisting" instead of the issues again. I'm actually a little surprised. Just kidding! I'm not!
ReplyDeleteActually, you weren't responding to ME. You were responding to another commenter. I think I was pretty clear about that in my post. And I also think they were pretty clear about it in their use of their own name in the comment.
While I can't speak for them, it wasn't my impression that they were looking to solve any debate by a cumulative score of arbitrary and unrelated things. The commenter was just pointing out that the concerns that Sarah had of your blog post weren't isolated and they seemed worthy of a real reply besides, "You're twisting my words!" HER point wasn't about numbers, it was about you skirting the issues.
I like that you seem to think that because something is in the shape of a chart that is inherently objective. That is fascinating. And by fascinating, I guess I mean, ridiculous.
I actually never said anything about reducing blogger wars. Although I find your advice about not sounding reactionary ironic, considering your Tumblr spreadsheet. I think it is important to have these conversations and discuss these sort of issues. But clearly they aren't getting through to you, so it seems like it is a waste to continue. However, I think that my words here did serve an important purpose, not to be reactionary, but to validate the feelings of any women that your post alienated and shamed.
I actually have a lot of respect for you as a blogger and have been pretty surprised by how unresponsive you've been to critical feedback on such an important and sensitive issue. Obviously you and Sherideth knew the post could do that or it wouldn't have included the hate mail caveat. I guess I'm just not sure how this conversation could have been more productive, and I think it is unfortunate that it wasn't.
Yes, this x1000.
ReplyDeleteI'm also kind of wondering why we are assuming that because 500 people shared it on Facebook that they were automatically in agreement.
Keep fighting the good fight!
RIGHT?! They could be sharing it because they love modesty culture and shaming women for their clothing choices. Which would actually prove our point.
Delete